THE RELUCTANT GOURMET COOKING COMMUNITY

cyndidole · Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 3

My family loves the taste and texture of rustic Italian breads, so I've been trying to figure out how to make them at home. So far I've not gotten very close and wondered if anyone out there has had any luck getting the large holes and brittle, tough crust that's typcial of these types of bread. I did buy a clay pot to try as I read that helps keep the steam around the loaves as they bake to make the crust brittle and tough. Any ideas, techniques or recipes anyone wants to share?

jfield · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 553 Location: Cary, NC

If you could share your recipe and technique, that would give us a point from which to start. What exactly is it about your finished product that you aren't pleased with? Would love to help; there are just so many variables, I need to know where you're starting. :)

cyndidole · Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 3

I'm looking for larger holes than regular sandwich bread. It shouldn't be a delicate texture but hearty. The crust should be thick and crusty, and it should take extra work to chew it. This type of bread is usually sold in specialty bakeries in paper envelopes, and its made daily.

jfield · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 553 Location: Cary, NC

That's the kind of bread I like, too. Again, since I don't know your ingredients or your procedure, I can't really guide you.

Dilbert · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 325

cyndidole -

it is tricky to advise since we don't know what kind of recipe you are working with - but here's a couple generalities

a lot of kneading usually results in a fine structure without a lot of holes. this is especially true for machine kneading - i.e. dough hooks

shortenings / eggs / sugar to a lesser extent can make doughs softer.

"wetter / stickier" doughs are more apt to produce bigger holes than a recipe which produces a "smooth elastic ball that does not stick to...."

the thin crunchy crust of French styles is difficult to reproduce without steam injection. the moisture "sets" the crust.

covered baking (such as a clay pot) can imitate that - traps the initial moisture on the crust, followed by a portion of uncovered baking for browning.

it is my opinion / experience that putting the dough in a preheated pot & preheated oven is an important bit in the crunchy crust quest.

have you tried the "no-knead" bread technique?
mix flour, water, yeast, salt - allow to stand overnight to 24 hrs

that would be a good starting point for an artisan big hole/crunchy loaf

ninjabut · Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 836 Location: No CA USDA zone 8

Where can I find more info on the "no knead" technique?

jfield · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 553 Location: Cary, NC

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/081mrex.html

Jim Lahay is the guy who started this whole craze. It's supposed to be really good, although I've never tried it.

ninjabut · Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 836 Location: No CA USDA zone 8

Thanks. I'll give it a shot. I might actually have to turn on the heater in the house to do this, though. LOL

jfield · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 553 Location: Cary, NC

Good luck! Would love to hear how it turns out for you :)

iansmom · Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 2

OK... I'm new to all this, but I'd like to make a suggestion.

I took a bread class at J&W a few weeks back and it's true that the crunchy crust comes from the steam injection. The big, commercial ovens at the school had a steam line into the oven to do that without opening the oven. Our (typical) ovens at home in our residential kitchens do not. So the chef suggested two methods.

Preheat your oven and baking stone. Place the bread on the preheated baking stone. Use a squirt bottle with water and spray the sides of your oven with the water (OR) pour some water in the bottom of your oven. In our class, we steamed our bread twice. First time was when we first put it in the oven. The second time was about 20 minutes later.

HTH.

Dilbert · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 325

I learned about the steaming thing from our local village baker.... in Germany! he was 5th millionth generation _serious_ about bread.... (okay, okay, it was a really small town, but the baker was really big hearted,,,,)

best 'trick' I've used is putting a cast iron (yeah, gotta be cast iron) frying pan in the oven during the pre-heat. when you want steam, toss some ice cubes in the cast iron pan.

ninjabut · Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 836 Location: No CA USDA zone 8

Well, I tried the "almost no knead" bread (similar to the one on this thread) and let it sit for almost 18 hours.
It smelled great, it looked great, I went out and bought some rolls "just in case"
YUK! the outer parts were fine, but the middle was a LUMP!
I'll try one more time when I get my wood stove installed next week, but after that...........I'll stick to the beer bread.

jfield · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 553 Location: Cary, NC

Bummer, Nancy--good thing you bought those rolls! I have a beer bread recipe somewhere that calls for flour, beer and yeast. That's it. I'll try and find it if you want, because I don't recall the proportions off the top of my head.

ninjabut · Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 836 Location: No CA USDA zone 8

I do have a beer bread recipe that worked a few weeks ago and it was OK.
I think it was 3 c self rising flour (sifted)
1/4 c sugar
1 12 oz beer
1/4 c melted butter(pour over top. I reduced this by half)
bake for 1 hr

Problem is it is something like 423 cal per piece!